tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1441164155286448763.post4874707661062834296..comments2024-03-25T18:27:37.374+00:00Comments on The Kissed Mouth: Playing Ruskin's AdvocateKirsty Stonell Walkerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08342964877965021654noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1441164155286448763.post-41126140107840284582016-03-06T12:04:42.766+00:002016-03-06T12:04:42.766+00:00John Rusking fell in love with Effie when she was ...John Rusking fell in love with Effie when she was 12 years old and wrote a book for her. In Sophy's diaries its shown that he spoke badly of his wife to her trying to turn her against her sister but she told Effie what was said. Her parents helped her get away from him in the end and yes she got her annulment (what was she supposed to do live a sexless life for all her life?) his spite after she had a real marriage with children was childish and petty. What did he expect to have to put up with his mother and his behaviour never to have sex because he wouldn't have sex with her? He went on to fall in love with Rose La Touch when she was 10 years old. Her parents asked Effie about her marriage when she became engaged to him and because of that information the engagement was broken.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06521453644450000599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1441164155286448763.post-38430705969907407692013-05-01T19:39:45.650+01:002013-05-01T19:39:45.650+01:00Hmm, there is definitely something afoot. Does an...Hmm, there is definitely something afoot. Does anyone have any info?Kirsty Stonell Walkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08342964877965021654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1441164155286448763.post-13150149303314346842013-05-01T18:33:41.147+01:002013-05-01T18:33:41.147+01:00Brownwell's book on Marriage of Inconvenience ...Brownwell's book on Marriage of Inconvenience has been on order since February and the publication date keeps getting put back. Is there more litigation on the go, like the screenplay court case for Emma Thompson's film?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07321811446989575626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1441164155286448763.post-77368452393987812242013-02-04T16:01:23.188+00:002013-02-04T16:01:23.188+00:00Yes, I felt that Tom Hollander's Ruskin was br...Yes, I felt that Tom Hollander's Ruskin was brilliant because it was subtle (I thought his Mr Collins was a highlight of the film version of Pride and Prejudice). I agree, I think that, unlike modern society especially, sex was not his priority.<br /><br />Thank you for your comments!Kirsty Stonell Walkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08342964877965021654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1441164155286448763.post-8592529981959180532013-02-04T15:11:32.581+00:002013-02-04T15:11:32.581+00:00I personally feel it is likely Ruskin was asexual....I personally feel it is likely Ruskin was asexual. Asexual people are still much understood, but they feel attachment and love for others in every way except that they have no sexual desires, and others trying to make them feel this way can make them feel uncomfortable, or even threatened. I felt that they actually treated this quite well in the part of Desperate Romantics where he tries to explain that he loves being with young people, but has no sexual urges. I actually felt very sorry for the man, although I did pity his wife more, because there is a terrible history of women being labelled abnormal, even mad, for wanting sex.Laura Morriganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16402692693911867276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1441164155286448763.post-22029692964135670642013-02-04T12:07:47.486+00:002013-02-04T12:07:47.486+00:00Simon, I am a harsh woman.
Millais should have ...Simon, I am a harsh woman. <br /><br />Millais should have been physically restrained from doing landscape unless he could prove he had a damn good reason. If he was going to do something like 'A View Near Hampstead', he should have been made to put some people in it. Or leave it to someone who did it better.<br /><br />Spencer Stanhope is splendid :)Kirsty Stonell Walkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08342964877965021654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1441164155286448763.post-36581928679434980052013-02-04T11:52:09.853+00:002013-02-04T11:52:09.853+00:00Yes, absolutely. The Lady of Shalott is a stonker,...Yes, absolutely. The Lady of Shalott is a stonker, and it was so wonderful to see it back in Britain for the first time since The Festival of Britain. I gazed and gazed. And The Finding of the Saviour in the Temple, The Light of the World, and The Awakened Conscience. Terrific. As I said, the great pictures are great, though I must say I still don't love them quite the way I love great paintings by Rossetti and Burne-Jones or (my personal passion) Spencer Stanhope.<br /><br />Painfully dull might be a bit harsh.simon.poehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01747299467622711958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1441164155286448763.post-44753318763052388972013-02-04T10:59:52.137+00:002013-02-04T10:59:52.137+00:00Oi! Yes, he's mad as a bag of frogs but he...Oi! Yes, he's mad as a bag of frogs but he's never dull. I see your May Morning in Midwitch and raise you The Lady of Shalott. And The Hireling Shepherd. God, I love The Hireling Shepherd, and not just because I like hanging around in cornfields in a low cut top waiting for a nice man to show me his hawk moth.<br /><br />Millais was brilliant but blimey, he could be dull. Painfully dull.Kirsty Stonell Walkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08342964877965021654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1441164155286448763.post-37266151610487717362013-02-04T10:46:08.638+00:002013-02-04T10:46:08.638+00:00Blimey. Are you serious about Holman Hunt? He'...Blimey. Are you serious about Holman Hunt? He's an artist I've always admired more than I actually liked. The great pictures are great, of course, but even in them his personality seeps out through the paint and he's not good company. Pre-Raphaelitism and the Pre-Raphaelite Brotherhood is a sour, score-settling book. And the bad pictures! Diana Holman Hunt rightly said that the woman in Dolce Far Niente looks like a female impersonator in a wig. The Lantern Maker's Courtship (ugh), May Morning on Magdalen Tower (shudder), and, worst of all, The Triumph of the Innocents (gag)! When he was bad he was very, very bad, and when he was good he was horrid.simon.poehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01747299467622711958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1441164155286448763.post-64737239464676819762013-02-03T17:27:49.957+00:002013-02-03T17:27:49.957+00:00I fear I am going to be the only commenter who has...I fear I am going to be the only commenter who has never really heard of any of these people (except Millais, and that only in a very general way), nor do I know why we should be so interested that the chap never slept with his wife. However, my interest has been duly piqued and I shall spend the remainder of the afternoon (at work) researching these people and finding out why everyone's in a tizzy about them! Am glad to hear there's another period piece starring Greg Wise (whom I have adored since "S&S") coming up. I've been starving for some good period film ever since the latest "Jane Eyre" and "The Woman in Black"...Marchelinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11201825708442679157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1441164155286448763.post-47314753612641194902013-02-03T10:07:18.064+00:002013-02-03T10:07:18.064+00:00Meh, I think Holman Hunt was the greatest Pre-Raph...Meh, I think Holman Hunt was the greatest Pre-Raphaelite as he never let it go (which also makes him the most unhinged, but possibly they are one and the same). Millais was so brilliant that even his stuff that really should not be brilliant (eg Cherry Ripe, based on Reynolds. For goodness sake, what was he thinking?) makes you want to weep with its beauty.<br /><br />Ah, George Price Boyce. Yet another reason to finish the time machine and marry him. Just saying...Kirsty Stonell Walkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08342964877965021654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1441164155286448763.post-69166249125572025322013-02-03T09:27:39.848+00:002013-02-03T09:27:39.848+00:00I remember at the press view for the Millais show ...I remember at the press view for the Millais show I was chatting to Alison Smith before we went round. The press release said that he was 'the greatest of the Pre-Raphaelites' and I asked her if she really believed that (I'd always taken it for granted that Rossetti was the main man). She looked at me as if I was soft and said 'Obviously'. I thought, yeah, yeah. But then I saw the exhibition (that last room with the landscapes!) and thought, oh shit, she's right. You're right about the Sophy Grey portrait, too. That was a revelation. George Price Boyce! Bastard! Imagine having that picture and Bocca Baciata hanging in your front room! Just not fair.simon.poehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01747299467622711958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1441164155286448763.post-89595758445960848802013-02-03T06:45:40.569+00:002013-02-03T06:45:40.569+00:00I do like 'exquisitely sad', Simon, I may ...I do like 'exquisitely sad', Simon, I may use that as a reply if people ask me how I feel on certain days :)<br /><br />What I meant when I said he peaked was that he astonished me with Ophelia (you can never beat seeing it for real, just amazing), but then everything was brilliant (in different ways) after that too, so I was exhausted from feeling so astonished after countless rooms. The portrait of Sophie Grey is in my office, and remains a favourite. But I just felt he had nowhere to go in terms of brilliance, which was what left me feeling depressed, sorry, exquisitely sad.Kirsty Stonell Walkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08342964877965021654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1441164155286448763.post-24281159097921911512013-02-02T19:41:21.257+00:002013-02-02T19:41:21.257+00:00Can one be on Team Ruskin, Team Everett, AND Team ...Can one be on Team Ruskin, Team Everett, AND Team Effie? Cos I think I am. I loved Suzanne Fagence Cooper's The Model Wife (and hearing her talk about Effie was even more persuasive). You're right of course Kirsty, Millais peaked early (not managing to top Ophelia and Mariana is hardly cause for shame, though, is it? They're perfect), but Autumn Leaves? The Vale of Rest? Chill October? Lingering Autumn? All perfect too in their different ways. Melancholy, certainly, but surely not depressing? Exquisitely sad.simon.poehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01747299467622711958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1441164155286448763.post-33510723199218445312013-02-02T18:56:20.192+00:002013-02-02T18:56:20.192+00:00Yikes. As we have been discussing on The Stunner&...Yikes. As we have been discussing on The Stunner's Boudoir on Facebook, Emma Thompson's chap Greg Wise is playing Ruskin and he is over twice as old as Dakota Fanning, aged 19. The actual age gap between Ruskin and his bride was only 9 years which leads me to worry that they are playing the old man/child bride card, which isn't true.<br /><br />Just because he was a giant weirdy doesn't mean he was evil.<br /><br />Damn it, turns out I'm Team Ruskin....<br /><br />On the matter of whether Effie ruined Millais talent, I'm on the fence. Millais peaked at 8, it's hard to judge as all of his work is stunning. Even the pictures of kids which could make you vomit are amazing. When I was at the Tate Show of his work a few years back you just end up feeling that he never got better after about the age of 19, which got depressing after a while...Kirsty Stonell Walkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08342964877965021654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1441164155286448763.post-37926230893796378582013-02-02T15:26:51.872+00:002013-02-02T15:26:51.872+00:00It's a very even and balanced post - I also am...It's a very even and balanced post - I also am finding myself wanting to read more about Ruskin, he seems to be viewed only through the filter of his addmittedly strange romantic/sexual life, when in fact he was a figure of towering importance, with views about industrialisation and the depersonalisation it caused, as well as art. Heaven knows what he, along with William Morris and D H Lawrence, would make of our "interesting times".<br />Also wondering why they cast someone who looks way more like Lizzie Siddal, Effie was very Celtic looking as you can see in the Order of Release, very like some of my family on the Scots/Irish side. Is Emma T going to have a go at Rossetti next, :)Moyrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06995361991804810774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1441164155286448763.post-80187336878467374522013-02-02T14:29:38.752+00:002013-02-02T14:29:38.752+00:00Hang on there are three screenplays, one of them w...Hang on there are three screenplays, one of them written by Emma Thompson, who garnered an Academy Award for her screenplay of Sense and Sensibility. The existence of three scripts has led to litigation and if you like plot spoilers you can find detailed accounts of them all at the following link:<br />http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/new-york/nysdce/1:2011cv07087/385906/34/0.pdf?1355922645 If the link does not work try Googling effi - Justia.anthony michael carterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17980954144014243555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1441164155286448763.post-8579624012644492372013-02-01T22:30:19.332+00:002013-02-01T22:30:19.332+00:00It's a pity that the judge didn't take Rus...It's a pity that the judge didn't take Ruskin up on his offer to demonstrate to the court that he was not impotent. THAT would have been a courtroom drama, and no mistake. I think he probably was a weirdo, but what the hell? There are so many weirdos and so few geniuses. How many of us could reveal every detail of our private lives without mortification? How many of us leave behind 39 wonderful volumes? Not bloody many.<br /><br />Oh, and it's absurd to say that Effie ruined Millais' talent. Late Millais is wonderful. Different from early Millais but still wonderful.simon.poehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01747299467622711958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1441164155286448763.post-85269656966263135382013-02-01T18:52:56.213+00:002013-02-01T18:52:56.213+00:00Yikes, 'incurable impotence'... It just st...Yikes, 'incurable impotence'... It just strikes me that we make no attempt to understand him because we do not have a pigeonhole to put him in so he goes in the good old Victorian Weirdo slot. Shame. <br /><br />Of course at the end of the month I'll take it all back if the 'new evidence' shows that he was into zebras and soft fruit. Dear me....Kirsty Stonell Walkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08342964877965021654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1441164155286448763.post-3364158025673852762013-02-01T18:43:48.822+00:002013-02-01T18:43:48.822+00:00I have been flipping through my copy of "John...I have been flipping through my copy of "John Ruskin and Effie Gray" by Admiral Sir William James. It consists in large part of letters written by the twain. At the end the grounds for the annulment are stated; these were "incurable impotence" on the part of Ruskin. There is clear evidence from the letters that the couple were happy when abroad and out of the clutches of Ruskin's mum. I am with you in thinking posterity has not been kind to Ruskin. anthony michael carterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17980954144014243555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1441164155286448763.post-88386308270621404672013-02-01T16:25:01.163+00:002013-02-01T16:25:01.163+00:00Thank you everyone for your comments. I look forw...Thank you everyone for your comments. I look forward to reading the new book...Kirsty Stonell Walkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08342964877965021654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1441164155286448763.post-88096762282251343182013-02-01T15:34:22.841+00:002013-02-01T15:34:22.841+00:00Only to add that it is worth mentioning his obsess...Only to add that it is worth mentioning his obsessive Mother; his correspondence explaining his side of the story to Lady Trevelyan , and hints that Effie was considered boring and 'common' by his friends who also mention the number of men she went about with in Vienna. Ruskin mention her complete misunderstanding of his work and even her laughing at it. Certainly some of us think she ruined Millais' talent. Hermeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00968366076064269729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1441164155286448763.post-35806286801886062412013-02-01T15:25:42.603+00:002013-02-01T15:25:42.603+00:00yes, three cheers for writing something thoughtful...yes, three cheers for writing something thoughtful and well<br />said about both Mr Ruskin and Effie. Carolinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10164365220865497719noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1441164155286448763.post-70090900659621003382013-02-01T15:23:21.516+00:002013-02-01T15:23:21.516+00:00I've always felt a bit sorry for both Ruskins....I've always felt a bit sorry for both Ruskins. I think they both had problems with the marriage. If I remember Ruskin was brought up thinking he was totally perfect and his parents created this "nothing is too good for our boy". Granted he was a boy wonder when young and I'm sure that gave him a skewed sense of things. How horrible to grow up that way and find that you really don't get everything you want and aren't really perfect. And Effie grew up thinking she had to go along with everything. <br /><br />We tend to view people from the past as rather black and white when they have as many grey parts as we do. Nancyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13200245194489874517noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1441164155286448763.post-16327993854592932342013-02-01T15:14:32.666+00:002013-02-01T15:14:32.666+00:00What a thoughtful and sympathetic bit of writing -...What a thoughtful and sympathetic bit of writing - without damning either side. Thank you.Freyalynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11911845535682123517noreply@blogger.com